Legislative Council, Wednesday 24 May 2023

Ms FORREST (Murchison) - Mr President, I welcome this, what could be described as a long-overdue bill, as we heard in our briefings today. We are also aware that the recommendations for these sorts of approaches were made many years ago following the royal commission into child abuse in institutions.

All of us should have watched, if we did not watch, in horror at some of the evidence that was provided to not only the royal commission, but also to our own commission of inquiry about the circumstance some children faced, and the life-long harm that those experiences have left them, to the point of some even taking their own lives. I welcome this legislation and hope to see it progressed.

As has been said many times, every child has a right to be safe. Every child should know that right and be able to live that right. Sadly, we know that at the hands of others, many children have not been safe.

Whilst this bill seeks to address the very real and, sadly, far too frequent occurrences of abuse of children in institutional settings, it does nothing to deal with the abuse of children in their own homes. We know that many children are harmed in their own homes. It is not that I am suggesting we should be trying to do that now; I am just making the point that many children are abused in their own homes by people they know, love and trust, who breach that love and trust to an extraordinary degree. It is a more difficult area to address, perhaps, in some circumstances and in some estimation here. However, we must not overlook that the problem of abuse of children - sexual, emotional or physical - will not go away simply by passing legislation.

Hopefully, this legislation will deal in a meaningful way with the shocking legacy of the abuse children have suffered at the hands of institutions, but it does not remove that need for us to be eternally vigilant for the abuse of children within their own - what should be safe places - homes.

The most important thing we can focus on is prevention. It is only when we prevent the abuse of children that we will see this terrible scourge go. We are, sadly, a long way from that but we have to move. We have to act; we have a moral obligation to act.

Thankfully, through the various processes that have been undertaken publicly through the royal commission and the commission of inquiry, more victim-survivors are feeling able to speak up. Many still do not. Many still are still too harmed and too vulnerable, and also continue to fear they will not be believed. We know from the experience of so many victims of abuse of any form, whether it is sexual abuse, rape, physical or emotional abuse, there are still many victims who are afraid to speak up because they fear they will not be believed. The evidence is clear on that. While there may be a very small portion of people who fabricate such claims, they are a very small minority. The vast majority of people do not make up these sorts of claims. They should be believed as the default position. Until everyone feels they can be believed, we are not going to make the change we need. People need to feel confident they will be believed, and that their disclosure or their claim will be properly, independently and fully assessed. For far too long, people who were children when they were abused and who are now adults, or adults who were abused as adults, in whatever form, have been let down by our systems.

I welcome this change. It has been a long time coming. As I understand it, the first draft of this bill was first put out for public consultation in 2020 and that one did not pick up on a number of areas. In particular, there was no reportable conduct scheme.

We do need a robust reportable conduct scheme if we are going to have any hope of addressing the harm after it is done. Knowing that there is a proper reportable conduct scheme in place may deter some people from perpetrating harm to children, but it will not deter all. That is after the event, so we need to do much more in the prevention area and that is where the provisions on the child safe workplaces come in. I note the very broad definition of a worker. It is the only legislation I am aware of, and I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong on this, where members of parliament are considered workers. I may be wrong on that but generally we, members of parliament, are not considered workers for the purposes of most other legislation; certainly, in this one we are. That is right and proper because in our role as members of parliament we do have access to children. We see children in our community. We see them at events. We visit schools. I assume all of us who go to schools have a Working with Vulnerable People and Children card. I certainly do. Those things are part of the picture, but the fact that all of us and any person who may engage with children in their work or voluntary roles are required to comply.

We heard from the Commissioner for Children and Young People this morning. She has also made comments in the past about the legislation and expressed some frustration at the time it has taken to get to here. She has been very clear about not wanting to hold the process up and to get on with it. You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, the old saying goes. We may have to agree to differ. Her view may not be entirely reflected in the legislation before us, but she was very clear that she did not want to see this bill held up. As she said, it creates a fairly complex process for people to navigate. If it is to be focused on the best interests of children then we need to make it accessible to children.

As I said in the briefing, legislation is quite a blunt instrument. It is hard for the average adult to read and understand legislation, particularly when it is complex. The important body of work that sits behind this legislation is the public awareness campaign the Government will be rolling out. This is to ensure that people know where to get the information they need to ensure that they comply, whether they be a single operator like a tutor of students doing one to one tutoring, a music teacher, whatever, right through a large organisation that provides services and care for children.

We were also informed by the commissioner that she has had discussions with the Government on this, and this is considered a first step in trying to put together a more comprehensive framework which, one would hope, would become less complex. You do need to have a degree of complexity with these processes and the regulation of these matters. If you do not have that, you could have gaps or loopholes that people will find their way through. The important thing is that people are nt only aware of the presence of the legislation once it is dealt with and passed, but also how it applies to them and how they participate in this and how all of us as individuals in our roles who are engaged with children at all ensure that everyone is aware of their responsibilities and obligations under this legislation.

The Commissioner for Children and Young People also talked extensively about her desire to see a similar provision for a principles-based approach where the best interests of children are paramount. Whilest there is an object in the bill about that, we could argue about whether this is adequate. The object of the act is in clause 3 and it says:

Without limiting the provisions of the Act, the object of the Act is to protect and promote the best interests of children.

Yes, there is a reference to the best interests of children; but when you go to Schedule 1, which talks about the standards that organisations are to apply, it does not refer in those to the best interests of children. It talks about a whole range of other matters that would promote children's wellbeing and children's safety, but it does not talk about the best interests of children being the paramount matter or concern here.

I would be interested to hear what other members think about that, and also the Leader's comments following the briefing today, about why we do not have an overarching guiding principle in this. I understand that the commissioner's role, as it is currently, is somewhat different, but we are setting up an independent regulator to oversee and deliver under this act and that person will be regulating organisations and potentially individuals as well.

I cannot understand why you would not put the onus on them to also conduct themselves in a way that puts the best interests of children as the paramount concern. I would be interested to hear the Leader's more formal and full explanation as to why that is not part of this bill, albeit acknowledging they are different roles. Whether they will be in the future is another question I will put to the Leader to provide some information in her reply to this debate, about that feedback we received - that this is a first step. Is the strategy or the future plan for this to incorporate a more comprehensive system that may require a whole new act that includes the role of the commissioner, as currently described; the role of the independent regulator; and any other body that needs to be wrapped into this, to ensure it is basically one door that a person has to go to and knock on to get the support and help they need to ensure a child's safety - whether it be the child themselves, a loved one of the child or an organisation that is seeking to do the right thing and the best thing they can for children in their care?

Whilst we have this - as some could say - quite disjointed and complex system where there are multiple doors, you always risk people being shunted from door to door and never getting resolution. I would like the Leader to inform the House about what the strategy is and whether we are looking toward a single entity in the future; and how we will ensure that it is not so complex that people are frightened away from it or feel disempowered to get the support they need. Clearly, that is the front-end work, in many respects. It is about setting up child-safe organisations that ideally will prevent the abuse of children in any institutional setting or any organisation that provides care or services to children. Of course, cultural change takes time and it will take a while for this to bed in even when it is passed, but that has to be a very large and significant piece of work if we are going to make a difference. We have to prevent child abuse, not just pick up the pieces afterwards.

Those are the key questions about the future; but I cannot underestimate the importance of having the least complex system that we can, and a 'no wrong door' approach - that one door someone can knock on to get the help, support and guidance they need, whether it be an organisation wanting to know how to comply with this new child-safe organisation framework or a person who wants to make a report about reportable conduct.

Sitting suspended from 1.00 p.m. to 2. 30 p.m.

[2.49 p.m.]

Ms FORREST (Murchison) - Thank you Mr President. Just before the lunch break, I was keen to talk a little about the reportable conduct provisions in the bill. As I said previously, these are the provisions that basically deal with the problem after it has occurred rather than front-end prevention. I note that the bill does adopt a definition of reportable conduct that includes a range of conduct committed against or in the presence of children, including sexual offences, sexual misconduct, grooming, physical violence, significant emotional or psychological harm, and significant neglect. That is quite an expansive area and, to me, it is fairly comprehensive, and it is very good to include that.

It is only probably in more recent years that we have fully understood what grooming actually looks like and how insidious it can be; and how particularly young children can be groomed over a long time before any other harm occurs - I say 'other harm' because grooming is still harmful. The provisions in this bill and the descriptions of what those acts look like, which will no doubt form part of the public awareness campaign, should enlighten us all as to the risk, not just in institutions, but I come back to that point that children are being groomed in their own homes. They are being groomed in all areas of society and it is not okay. It is extremely harmful. It almost always leads to other serious forms of harm.

Whilst this bill does not do anything directly to address the harm children experience in their own places, their homes which should be safe, hopefully the publicity on this the Government have committed to will do so. It says that one of the functions of the regulator administering the reportable conduct scheme is to educate and advise organisations on the handling of reportable conduct. If they are going to do that effectively, that means they have to notify individuals who engage with children, like tutors or music teachers and that sort of thing, who may have private students. Then, through that process of notifying more broadly about this, it might raise awareness not just for those people who may be perpetrating some of these offences such as grooming, in a child's home, for example, but hopefuly for the children themselves.

My message to the Government is: when you are putting this information out into the public arena, make it child-friendly. Make it easy for children to understand. Make it easy for them to know that this is not okay wherever they are. Make it easy for them to know who they can go to. If the harm is occurring in their own home, then the people in their own home may not be the people they can go to, or certainly some of them definitely are not. Let us use this as a broader communication piece that enables all children to be aware that they have a right to be safe and feel safe, and to be protected.

It just breaks my heart to see some of the harm that has been done over the years to people - children who have then become adults, if they live that long. Hopefully, through a public awareness raising process on this particular legislation that does not deal with that in the more personal context of a family home, it should appeal to all of us but must be presented at an organisational level. Yes, obviously we need to have that higher level of information for organisations, but you also need to have some information in the public arena that is accessible to children. Without that, we will miss the mark and we will be still chasing our tails in years to come when, sadly, more children will be victims of harm.

I see that as an important part of this process and the independent regulator in the work they do to ensure that not only are they educating the organisations and everyone who needs to be aware of their responsibilities under this legislation, but they are also making it really clear that these reportable behaviours are not acceptable in any setting. They are not okay anywhere. If we can put out that information in such a way that it makes it clear, we hope that victims are more able and supported to come forward and hope we can prevent harm, not just pick up the pieces at the end.

The other provision I will touch on briefly is the sharing of information provisions. That is an important to ensure that we do not act in silos and have people slipping through gaps because information was not shared appropriately. This goes back to the point I made earlier about the need for a one-door approach - a no-wrong-door approach, just one door. That is not how it is at the moment. Even with this legislation, it creates another structure. I hope the Leader can give more information about where we are heading in the future, to develop and implement a system that is user-friendly, that assists victim-survivors, promotes prevention but makes it easy to access for all those who may need to - whether it is an organisation that needs to understand how they meet their obligations or it is a victim who needs to know how they can get help. All those things should be through one door. The advocacy for children and ensuring children's best interests are our key and predominant driver are paramount in any decisions around children and their care. If you could aim at that sort of approach, it will make it much easier to access, it will be much more child friendly and hopefully we will see a reduction in this appalling abuse we have seen forever.

Mr President, I support the bill. Those concerns I have raised are more about where to in the future, about the implementation of the bill and what is coming next. I am keen to see this progress and to get at least a system in place that will deal with some of these serious matters.